mutz
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Post by mutz on Aug 20, 2019 11:19:09 GMT
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red
New Member
Posts: 32
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Post by red on Aug 31, 2019 15:52:23 GMT
Downloaded a pdf of his recommended Berserkir: A Re-Examination of the Phenomenon in Literature and Life by Roderick Thomas Duncan Dale. Hadn't actually read this one before and it looks decent. As to the video, I like his comments about Magic Mushrooms. I agree, it doesn't make sense that that's what they did and ridiculously it's become the accepted explanation for the berserkgangr. Most people I know who know nothing about Nordic/Germanic History and Lore, act like it's a simple fact; "berserkers did mushrooms. That's what they did." Yeah...no. I could expand on that and other theories this guy didn't mention concerning potential explanations for the berserkgangr that are equally unlikely, but back to what he was talking about.
As to whether or not the berserkir actually performed a “technique of frenzy,” playing off Eliade’s description of a “technique of ecstasy;” honestly this guy in the video didn't give any reasons at all for why the frenzy seems unlikely, other than that he seems to think it would have been useless in combat and that we can't trust the sources. I disagree. The very battle tactics he depicts in his video is basically of a wedge formation attempting to break up a shield wall. Who do you think would be the tip of the spear? Traditionally speaking, it's been thought for some time that berserkir were used as shock troops to charge in front of one's own shield wall and break up the shield wall on the other side. This could allow them to focus their energy towards the enemy rather than turning around and attacking one's own side or they could be used on the flanks, so there could have been a place for them on a large scale battlefield, but honestly the most times they're mentioned fighting is in smaller encounters where shield walls weren’t used, but in the fairly large battle fought by Harold Fairhair they seem to have acted as shock troops and this is a pretty old story. The Lay of Harold says they "rush forth to battle,” “dash into battle,” and that they are "tried and true," thus implying they are veterans and that they don't really hold a battle formation, yet in this large scale engagement they are also described as carrying shields and spears. In smaller encounters, whether those be duels or family feuds, shields were still often used, but also axes or swords, often to replace a spear. The guy in the video assumes that berserkir acting as shock troops would be "cut down," mostly by arrows, but I heard a story among others, but this one about a band of Scots who weren't berserkir, but it's a human example of how a bunch of guys charged some English Longbow Men and kept coming even when one of the English described the Scots as looking like "porcupines." It's like Chris Jacheo says that one of the guys from the Lone Survivor story of modern times Afghanistan, seems to have achieved a similar state to the gangr, when he went crazy and took multiple shots during the hours long firefight, including being shot in the head.
We have multiple mentions of berserkir using shields in battle. Viking Shields were surprisingly light and thin, just barely stopping arrows, which would often penetrate a little through them, but nothing else, which is why they had the metal disk in the center to protect the hand and give more support the rest of the wooden shield. The bearer of a shield would hold it surprisingly far outward from their body in single combat, because it was pretty light and they could hold it up high in a shield wall as well. Viking shields did sometimes have leather bands around the rim instead of, or over the iron rims, so it's not outlandish to think of someone biting on leather instead of metal or wood. I do think that shield biting is primarily a part of the process of berserkgangr, verses being a result once the state is achieved. This based upon Egil's Saga and Grettir's Saga primarily.
So much for theories against a technique of fury. The times when berserkir have been mentioned to enter states of “fury,” “fits,” “frenzies” or “rage” are mentioned in Hrolf’s Saga, multiple times in Heimskringla specifically in The Saga of the Ynglings, multiple times in Egil’s Saga, Vatnsdaela Saga, Grettir’s Saga, and probably one or two more I missed. Then there’s that Icelandic Law written in 1123 stating “If someone goes berserk, he is punished with lesser outlawry and the men who are present are also banished if they do not bind him.” This shows that the berserkgangr was still prevalent during the Christian times of Iceland and was taken serious enough to put a law on the books banning it, no doubt because of its connection to Pagan Rites, perhaps connected to Óðinn, whose Proto-Germanic name Wōðanaz, has been translated as “fury” or “frenzy.” Two centuries after the law banning berserkgangr and only one century after the last report of a berserkir band, Snorri Sturluson wrote both in The Prose Edda and in the The Saga of the Ynglings that Óðinn was their original leader.
In short; berserkir were both "raging beasts" and "warrior elite." If I missed anything specifically that the guy in the video said that you wanted addressed by us all, let me know.
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